# Slot Machine Bonus Games Predetermined

MathExtremist

The Mega Moolah slot machine by MicroGaming contains this type of bonus, as seen in the picture attached below. Experienced spinners are most likely familiar with the sight of cascades, a type of bonus round where some symbols are replaced by others falling from the top of the screen. Mar 25, 2014 However, there are a few older Aristocrats that are obviously predetermined. Outback Jack quickly comes to mind. And Konami games with progressives such as Mystical Temple and Pirate's Loot where is says right in the Game Rules screen that your choosing for the progressive symbols does not influence the outcome.

I would love to have somebody say, 'I program these games for company X and here is how we do it..' The WMS quote seems to answer the question for WMS, but I'd love to hear from IGT, Ballys, Aristrocrat, or anybody else.

You should be able to tell from the par sheets you have - if the bonus sections are based on probabilities of picking each value, vs just a distribution of final values, then you have your answer. For what it's worth, the Silicon Gaming bonuses were random picks, not predetermined final totals.
'In my own case, when it seemed to me after a long illness that death was close at hand, I found no little solace in playing constantly at dice.' -- Girolamo Cardano, 1563
Bonita
I was just perusing the OLG's website and came across a fact sheet. This is what one of the facts stated:
'Slot machines are run by computers with the game program and paytable data
stored on computer memory devices. Inside the machine, a random number
generator, which is part of the game’s program, is constantly coming up with
numbers at a rate of thousands per second, even when no one is playing. All of
these numbers have an equal likelihood of being selected at any one time to
determine game outcome. It is impossible to predict which number might be
generated at any one time. The payout percentage and actual awards are
predetermined for each game. On average, over a period of time, the payout
percentage balances out to the pre-set amount.'
So this leads me to believe that all bonus rounds are predetermined. These machines are class III, and I am going to assume that ALL class III machines are all predermined world wide. I know industry insiders say that OUR CHOICES determine the bonus pay out, but I think they just want to create the illusion of control. Any thoughts?
Bonita
I believe I have found my answer.
Slot bonus rounds are predetermined.
supergreg2

I was just perusing the OLG's website and came across a fact sheet. This is what one of the facts stated:
'Slot machines are run by computers with the game program and paytable data
stored on computer memory devices. Inside the machine, a random number
generator, which is part of the gameï¿½s program, is constantly coming up with
numbers at a rate of thousands per second, even when no one is playing. All of
these numbers have an equal likelihood of being selected at any one time to
determine game outcome. It is impossible to predict which number might be
generated at any one time. The payout percentage and actual awards are
predetermined for each game. On average, over a period of time, the payout
percentage balances out to the pre-set amount.'
So this leads me to believe that all bonus rounds are predetermined. These machines are class III, and I am going to assume that ALL class III machines are all predermined world wide. I know industry insiders say that OUR CHOICES determine the bonus pay out, but I think they just want to create the illusion of control. Any thoughts?

I don't agree that the text you posted indicates that bonus rounds are predetermined. I think it just means that the payout is set by the arrangement of the items on the reels and the way the bonus is hit and items selected, and over time the payout averages to this pre-set amount.
MathExtremist

I don't agree that the text you posted indicates that bonus rounds are predetermined. I think it just means that the payout is set by the arrangement of the items on the reels and the way the bonus is hit and items selected, and over time the payout averages to this pre-set amount. /sons-of-anarchy-free-slots.html.

It can go either way, and there's no external way to tell unless you play for a really, really long time and gather enough samples to determine that the bonus values aren't what they would be if the pickfield values were evenly distributed. GLI-11 used to have language prohibiting predetermination of winners and losers, but removed it in version 1.1 of GLI-11:
4.3.1.c Removed the 'no predetermination of winners and losers' rule to allow for second screen/player interaction games.
This doesn't imply that all 2nd screen bonus games are predetermined (because they're not), just that predetermination is okay in a 2nd screen game. Even then, it's not clear whether they mean predetermined values behind pick field items, or predetermined total outcomes. All the games I've ever done have been based on predetermined pick field items. Doing it the other way is actually harder from an implementation standpoint, but it may be necessary if you don't have a skilled mathematician (ahem, ahem).
'In my own case, when it seemed to me after a long illness that death was close at hand, I found no little solace in playing constantly at dice.' -- Girolamo Cardano, 1563
tringlomane
Gigantic bump here, but I would like a little more clarification of your opinion on this, MathExtremist. On pick-field bonuses that reveal the unpicked items at the end of the bonus, do you feel that they are generally not predetermined?
I bring this up because I have been having a discussion about bonus predeterminination on another forum regarding this game:
http://www.americangamingsystems.com/pdfs/Cut_Sheets/First_Family/Final_GoldenPanda_ClasIII_1.12.pdf
And this YouTube briefly shows the non-chosen picks revealed. Pausing in-between the 32 and 33-second mark will bring you to this fact.
BUT, this game is also available in Class II jurisdictions, where the bonus award MUST be predetermined, correct?
http://www.americangamingsystems.com/pdfs/Cut_Sheets/First_Family/Final_GoldenPanda_ClassII_1.12.pdf
The person playing this game is in a Class III jurisdiction. In your expert opinion, do you think the Class III version of the game would be randomly chosen for this pick-field bonus? Or since they also make the game for Class II gaming, both versions may be predetermined? And is the only way to be truly sure is to contact the company and/or magically find a PAR sheet?
CrystalMath
In class III, when unselected amounts are revealed, you must have had an equal chance of getting that award. I this was not the case, the game could deceptively lure the player into playing more by showing large amounts that were never really available.
But, this can be done with a pre-determined outcome or a randomly selected outcome.
For instance, given three items, the game could randomly select which one you will win and then display that award regardless of where you pick, then place the remaining prizes behind the other two spots. The game could also randomly place awards behind each spot and let the player choose. Either way, the player has a 1/3 chance at each award, and has the illusion of control.
Class II is probably trickier, but I would hope that the remaining picks represent equally likely outcomes of the bonus games as a whole.

## Slot Machine Bonus Games Predetermined Time

coilman
http://www.canlii.org/eliisa/highlight.do?text=ontario+slots+payouts&language=en&searchTitle=Search+all+CanLII+Databases&path=/en/on/onipc/doc/2009/2009canlii16570/2009canlii16570.html
Also early on in Ontario Casino days somebody wanted some information on slots payouts like you can get at the Casinos for asking in the states here is what he got
http://www.canlii.org/eliisa/highlight.do?text=ontario+slots+payouts&language=en&searchTitle=Search+all+CanLII+Databases&path=/en/on/onipc/doc/2000/2000canlii20931/2000canlii20931.html
tringlomane
The second link is depressing. My home state, Missouri, requires payout returns by denomination to be published online monthly by all casinos.
The first link is just the ruling that probably led to this paper.
http://www.nh.gov/gsc/calendar/documents/20091117_harrigan_dixon.pdf
To answer my particular question, I will probably be at the mercy of the company that made the slot machine. It's possible they may divulge that information voluntarily to me since it truly affects nothing, but I wouldn't count on it.
onenickelmiracle
I do know of only one machine which literally says the picks for the progressive bonus round do not matter and it is predetermined. It is called Mystic Temple manufactured by Konami. I saw this at Rivers PBGH when I read the help screen, but have not checked it elsewhere. Just stating an unique exception to all the common knowledge.
In the land of the blind, the man with one eye is the care taker. Hold my beer.

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